business marketing

Devin Johnson – Automated Business Marketing the Right Way: Why Leading with Relationships is Ideal When Making Sales (AoL 171)

Business marketing online is still a bit of a mystery to many business owners. Especially when it comes to LinkedIn.

In the past, we’ve had interviews with LinkedIn marketing experts Myr Bacun and AJ Wilcox about building groups and advertising on the platform.

Those are great and cool strategies on their own, and I know they work. But it seems that whenever I go to LinkedIn, I’m always being blasted by 3 to 5 messages saying “Hey, nice to connect! Seems we know similar people. Do you need help with…?”

Have you felt that way?

As this session’s guest, Devin Johnson puts it, it’s simply not the way to do long term business. You lead with relationship first.

So in this interview, we’ll learn how Devin and his company Kennected are righting the ship when it comes to making meaningful connections online.

Enjoy!

SPECIFICALLY, YOU’LL FIND OUT MORE ABOUT:

  • What were the early years like of being an entrepreneur for Devin? 11:59
  • How’d Devin eventually get into marketing? 16:22
  • How did it occur to him he could create a program to do things he found himself repeating in his marketing? 22:45
  • What are some of Devin’s do’s and don’ts when it comes to marketing? 28:28
  • If he knew what he knows now when he first started, what would he have done differently? 33:11
  • What’s on the horizon for Devin? 34:11
  • Who are his top 3 favorite influencers? 37:55
  • What’s a documentary that people should check out? 39:18
  • What is something he’s become good at saying no to? 39:58
  • Is there something under $100 that has changed Devin’s life? 42:41
  • What’s the secret to achieving personal freedom? 44:37

ITEMS and PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

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SHOW NOTE EXTRAS:

Intro to Using Kennected to Grow Your Business w/ CMO Elliot Drake

Kennected Training Video with Elliot

Andy Mork shares his Experience using Kennected

Zack Hesterberg Shares his Experience with Kennected


Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of the post.

Also, please leave an honest review for The AoL Podcast on iTunes! Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.

If you have any questions feel free to email them over via the email mentioned in the show or by our contact form.

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on CastboxiTunesStitcherPodBean, and/or Google Play Music. It’s absolutely free to do so.

A huge thank-you to you guys for joining us!

Cheers!

ethical issues in business

Michael Ainslie – Navigating Ethical Issues in Business – Why Doing What’s Right Ultimately Makes the Difference (AoL 169)

As we grow more successful, it can be easy for power to go to our heads. We can start to think we’re unstoppable. This is especially true on the grand scale when we see ethical issues in business headline the news.

One right now, for example, is the rehabilitation of the Boeing 737 Max line of aircraft. It has turned into an epic crisis in the last couple of years for them as they simply have not done well in addressing the issue. Nor did they really do a great job of mitigating it either. Whoever made the decision to cut corners and create the software which caused a couple flights to crash, obviously shouldn’t have cut those corners.

Another example was back in 2008 when Lehman Brothers had to file for bankruptcy. Out of all the things that went on that year, I still remember watching the news as the threat of that particular crisis grew more inevitable. When it finally did, the market plummeted… as well as the savings and lifestyles of many people who thought they had done things right.

Today’s guest, Michael Ainslie, was one of the group of people that had to make the decision to file for Chapter 11. Sure, making the decision was tough, but it was the right thing to do.

Being part of that board hasn’t been his only rodeo, however. He was also the CEO of the internationally known auction house Sotheby’s. Let’s just say they had a few things they had to deal with during his time there as well.

In his new book, A Nose for Trouble, he shares with us how he’s been able keep his head through all the adversity in his career.

In this chat, Andy and I get the chance to learn a few things you won’t hear on any other interview of his!

Enjoy!

SPECIFICALLY, YOU’LL FIND OUT MORE ABOUT:

  • If Michael wrote a screenplay for his life, where would the opening scene be? 9:42
  • As a first hand witness, how do highly successful board members end up in a orange jumpsuit in a prison? 14:38
  • What kind of people do these types of people hire as leadership for their companies? 16:29
  • How was Michael able to keep himself from being consumed by the power he’s had in his career? 20:38
  • How does he suggest executives balance the line between the what’s right and the needs of different stakeholders? 22:04
  • What can Xennials and younger generations of entrepreneurs learn from the mistakes of leaders who have gone before them? 27:06
  • What advice does he have to a company who’s trying to rebuild their brand and reputation if they’ve been dragged through the media? 32:38
  • What’s Michael looking forward to in 2020? 34:34
  • Who are his 3 top influencers are teachers who have helped him get to where he’s at today? 39:54
  • What’s a gift he loves to give others? 40:29
  • Is there a documentary that he’d recommend people watch? 40:26
  • What’s Michael’s favorite social custom? 42:02
  • How can someone be a difference maker in their community? 42:40

ITEMS and PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Michael Online: Website
Cohost: Andy Dix
Session Sponsor: Fizzle – A REAL entrepreneurship community with REAL advice!
Corning World Travel Fellowship
Sotheby’s
Lehman Brothers Bankruptcy
Elon Musk on Joe Rogan
Alex Heard – Chancellor at Vanderbilt U
Ron Daniel – Managing partner at McKinsey
J. Leslie Rollins and the Ohio Fellows Program
Fork Over Knives
Mort and Barbara Mandel Recreation Center

Right click here and save-as to download this episode to your computer.

SHOW NOTE EXTRAS:

Michael on the passing of Morton Mandel

Royal Poinciana Chapel New Garden

Michael’s interview with Bloomberg Radio

Interview with Kerry Lutz of the Financial Survival Network


Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of the post.

Also, please leave an honest review for The AoL Podcast on iTunes! Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.

If you have any questions feel free to email them over via the email mentioned in the show or by our contact form.

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on CastboxiTunesStitcherPodBean, and/or Google Play Music. It’s absolutely free to do so.

A huge thank-you to you guys for joining us!

Cheers!

healthy lifestyle

Cyndi Walter – Health, Wealth, and Happiness – Why a Positive Mindset and Healthy Lifestyle Should be a Part of Your Business Plan (AoL 163)

Having a healthy lifestyle is something that is brought up time and again in pop culture. However, with all the temptations of fast food, taking it easy, and dealing with stress, many people just simply struggle to do what’s best for them.

However, once you do figure out how to live healthier and learn how to live a positive mindset, achieving your goals gets that much easier. Main reason why is that you won’t constantly feel lethargic and out of energy.

In this session, Andy and I talk with Cyndi Walter who figured out at an early age that looking at the positive side of things makes life not only easier, but more fulfilling as well. Pair that with her experience in the direct sales world since she was in school and it’s no wonder that she has the ability to make an impact in the lives of many others – over 40,000 others in fact.

In this conversation with Cyndi, Andy and I get the chance to hear some of the secrets she’s used to build an amazing business!

Enjoy!

SPECIFICALLY, YOU’LL FIND OUT MORE ABOUT:

  • Why should someone even consider getting started with a direct sales company? 9:00
  • How was Cyndi introduced to the industry? 10:10
  • How does someone become the healthiest version of themselves? 13:53
  • How does she advise clients to make the time to make a healthy lifestyle a priority for themselves? 15:48
  • What kind of connections does she make between mind, body, and total performance? 17:02
  • What’s the biggest misconception Cyndi finds herself helping clients overcome with health and mindset? 18:37
  • What’s the wisest way to think about our food choices? 20:49
  • How has Cyndi been able to position herself in a way online that she’s not conflicting with typical direct sales rules? 23:20
  • What kind of systems does Cyndi have in her working day which have helped her be as successful as she is? 26:06
  • Are there specific strategies she uses to balance family, community, and business in her life? 29:10
  • What are the first signs of someone’s life going out of balance? 31:22
  • What’s Cyndi looking forward to in 2020? 36:51
  • Who are three influences who have launched Cyndi to where she’s at today? 39:15
  • One gift she likes giving others? 41:27
  • What service is out there that’s a disservice to youth? 42:34
  • Is there a message that should be discussed more, but hardly is? 43:38

ITEMS and PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

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SHOW NOTE EXTRAS:

Healthy Lifestyle: Toxicity and Cleansing

How Much Water to Drink Daily?

Benefits of Gratitude

Tips to Manage Stress


Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of the post.

Also, please leave an honest review for The AoL Podcast on iTunes! Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.

If you have any questions feel free to email them over via the email mentioned in the show or by our contact form.

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on CastboxiTunesStitcherPodBean, and/or Google Play Music. It’s absolutely free to do so.

A huge thank-you to you guys for joining us!

Cheers!

best nootropics

Prady Tewarie – Peak Performance in a Bottle: How Body Building & Business Systems Lead to the Best Nootropics Based Supplement (AoL 159)

When it comes to peak performance, most experts on the matter suggest that we learn how to care for ourselves, plan, and execute accordingly. However, even the most disciplined of us will have problems from time to time. Whether it’s a physical ailment or a mental breakdown, we all have issues from time to time. Thankfully, there’s some supplements on the market that can really impact your mental state. In fact, some of them contain some of best nootropics in existence.

If you’re not familiar with term nootropics, Veronica and I weren’t either before this interview. However, the way that our guest, Prady Tewarie, described them, it almost sounds too good to be true! Something better than coffee?! Blasphemy!

In today’s conversation, Prady shares with us his journey in starting his business Azoth, one of the fastest growing nootropic supplement companies today. What’s cool to me is that his entire journey in starting his business has been rather organic. He didn’t force it by starting a business first and then finding a product. In fact, he did it the way that it should be done.

If starting and growing a business based on your interests is something you’re wondering if you should do, let Prady’s story inspire you to give it a shot.

Enjoy!

SPECIFICALLY, YOU’LL FIND OUT MORE ABOUT:

  • After spending so much time going after a law degree and becoming a lawyer, what inspired Prady to become an entrepreneur? 9:32
  • How did he realize that fitness was essential to being in the right state of mind for his business, partners, and clients? 11:46
  • Where did the idea for Azoth come from? 14:56
  • How did Prady come to realize that systems were critical to building his business? 21:44
  • How did Prady find himself getting involved with Real Estate Investing? 33:10
  • What is he looking forward to in the end of 2019 and beyond? 40:40
  • If he could add one book, one song, and one film to the national curriculum, what would they be? 42:33
  • One thing under $100 that has changed his life? 44:07
  • What’s a believe, behavior, or habit that he’s started in the last 5 years that’s helped him improve his life? 46:16
  • What’s something he believed when he was 18 but now feels is inaccurate? 47:44
  • What’s the secret to achieving personal freedom? 49:19

ITEMS and PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

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SHOW NOTE EXTRAS:

Prady and Justin Hall on Having the Right Info on Supplements

Enlightened Millennial: Why Hard Work Is Not Enough!

Should I Quit my 9-5 and Start My Own Business?

The Reason You’re Not Achieving Wealth


Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of the post.

Also, please leave an honest review for The AoL Podcast on iTunes! Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.

If you have any questions feel free to email them over via the email mentioned in the show or by our contact form.

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on CastboxiTunesStitcherPodBean, and/or Google Play Music. It’s absolutely free to do so.

A huge thank-you to you guys for joining us!

Cheers!

when life gives you lemons

When Life Gives You Lemons… – How Embracing Your Personal Niche Will Get You Through the Tough Times with Kim Trathen (AoL 153)

Life has a way of making us rethink the actions we’re taking. Whether it’s in school or on the job, in life, or even while we’re working on our business. That’s where the saying “When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade!” comes from. Because it’s when we have these obstacles in our life, we often wonder if we’re doing the right thing. We wonder if maybe the universe is trying to tell us something.

This is why knowing who we are, what our strengths are, and how we can help others is so vital to our success.

It’s because we know how we fit in the world, that we’re able to justify doing the work we’re meant to do – even when it gets hard and we’re given reasons to not do it.

In this conversation with today’s guest, Kim Trathen, we learn about all the things she had to go through as she was developing her business in 2018. She had plenty of reasons to put her blossoming business on the back burner. However, because she knew what she was good at and how she could help others, it gave her the strength to keep pushing forward.

So join Veronica and I was we talk with Kim about this journey of hers and how you can apply it to your own life and business.

Enjoy!

SPECIFICALLY, YOU’LL FIND OUT MORE ABOUT:

  • What was the process that Kim went through to start her business? 7:38
  • How has she been able to deal with life’s challenges as she’s been starting her business? 13:36
  • How does she address limiting beliefs with her clients? 25:35
  • In what way does passive income factor in her business? 31:08
  • How does social media come into play with her clients? 39:46
  • What is Kim looking forward to the rest of the year? 44:32
  • What is one song, one book, and one film that should be added to the national curriculum? 47:48
  • What’s the best advice that Kim has ever received? 50:58
  • Which social custom is Kim’s favorite? 51:24
  • What advice does she hear adults giving children she’d call BS on? 52:04
  • What’s the secret to achieving personal freedom? 53:08

ITEMS and PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

Right click here and save-as to download this episode to your computer.

SHOW NOTE EXTRAS:

How to show up when you’re busy, tired, or just don’t feel like it…

The #1 Reason You Aren’t Where You Want to be In Life

How to Really Use Social Media as a MLM’er

#GirlsTalkBusiness 25 with Kristen Lynch


Thanks for Listening!

Thanks so much for joining us again this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below!

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of the post.

Also, please leave an honest review for The AoL Podcast on iTunes! Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and we read each and every one of them.

If you have any questions feel free to email them over via the email mentioned in the show or by our contact form.

And finally, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on CastboxiTunesStitcherPodBean, and/or Google Play Music. It’s absolutely free to do so.

A huge thank-you to you guys for joining us!

Cheers!

order from chaos

Making Order From Chaos – Understanding the Roles of Containers and Expanders on Your Team

It’s interesting how the universe works. This morning as I was watching the local news, and heard that several people have mysteriously died recently in the Dominican Republic – one of which was Barbara Corcoran’s brother.


If that name doesn’t ring a bell, she’s been one of the more prominent sharks on Shark Tank over the years.

As I was learning more about the loss of her brother, I ran across this tweet:

She goes on to talk about this further in her post on LinkedIn: There are Only Two Kinds of People

What’s ironic is that this is something that I’ve been thinking about quite a bit recently.

The Study of People Using Assessments

In my studies over the years regarding human and organizational behavior, I’ve come to appreciate personality tests. And one thing I’ve come to realize is that there are all kinds of ways to explain how a person ticks.

Some use academic means to assess the subject (Reiss Motivation Profile) while others are more widely used simply because they’re more well known and the information seems easier to convey (Myers-Briggs, DISC).

Up until recently, I’ve mainly used variations of the DISC profile to understand where people are coming from. Heck, I know the model so well that, when I’m waiting out in public, I’ll simply pass the time watching people and guessing their personality based on their personal style and how they’re interacting with others.

Here’s the kicker: most personality tests such as DISC are great if you’re checking to see how people react to a certain situation. I can tell what a person’s primary “personality” by how they respond to tasks and people.

If they’re given a task, will they try to do it or pass it off? Likewise, if they’re around others, will they try to be friends with them all or will they chill with a select group that they know well?

However, if you really want to know a person, you need to know what their Why is. Why do they approach certain situations in certain ways? This is what the Reiss Motivation Profile can help us with.

Instead of saying “they act this way around people/tasks” it instead helps us understand  “this is Why they act this way around people/tasks”.

Containers vs Expanders: Order vs Chaos

In conversing with upcoming guest of the AoL Podcast, Andy Dix, about Reiss Profile assessment, I’ve come to a realization. There are people who thrive in chaos and there are those who thrive with order.

Based on the results of my Reiss assessment, I like to think I’m somewhere in the middle. I like to make connections in chaos and help others apply that knowledge to their lives and/or business.

But I’m definitely more on the order side of things than the chaos side.

In other words, I’m more of a Container than an Expander.


Containers are detail oriented, like to keep on top of things, and like to create systems.

Expanders love ideas and action, thrive in chaos, and are 100% all out all the time.

Leveraging this Knowledge as a Leader

Generally speaking birds of a feather, flock together. Containers will naturally gravitate towards other Containers. Expanders will group with other Expanders.

Why?


Well, it’s human nature to see others from our own perspective.

Truth is, if let alone in the workplace, these individuals have the potential to drive each other crazy if made to work together without proper leadership. Containers might think Expanders are careless. Expanders might start believing that Containers aren’t moving forward fast enough.

If you compare them side by side, you might be right.

But as we’ve found out, they’re not the same. We’re comparing apples and oranges. So to avoid that frustration on your team and network, let’s tie this all together.

The Expander Leader

Let’s say that you’re an Expander – you’re constantly taking action. If you’re not making waves and meeting new people, you’re not happy.

That’s great and all, but if all your doing is planting seeds… who’s harvesting them? If all you’re doing is making the meal, who’s cleaning things up?

That’s where the Container comes in. Containers can make sense of the work you’re doing. They can help you be more efficient. And they can clean up after you if needed.

These are the types of individuals you’d want as part of your advisory team – your inner circle.

However, that being the case, you also need other Expanders. You can’t do all the things that need to be done in the field. So having other Expanders around will allow you to take more territory and explore new opportunities twice as fast.

The Container Leader

Likewise, if you’re a Container like myself, you’ll want at least one or two inner circle members to be Expanders.

Why?

If all you have is a group of Containers trying to make sense of things, you might get stuck in a loop of improvement. You’ll overthink things more than you need to.

With the addition of Expanders on your team, you can turn to them and ask “Hey, can you take this idea out to the market and see if this is something people want?”. Or, you can ask them “Hey, who do you know that could help us with…?”.

Because they love taking action, they’ll either find out the information themselves or, better yet, share the task with other Expanders in your network.

Action Steps

So to me, it’s fairly understandable why Barbara is so adamant about this topic. When paired together, Containers and Expanders can do amazing things!

With this knowledge, you can now determine whether you’re a Container or an Expander.

Then, it might be good to do an inventory of your team. What skill sets do your team members currently have? Which do you need?

Is your organization currently lead by Expanders? Then I’d imagine you need some Containers to make sense of things. There’s a good chance you’re making quite a lot of waves!

Is your startup made up of Containers? You’ll need to find some Expanders. You’ll naturally want to work on the product or service, but you need those Expanders to test it out in the market and get that feedback you need to make your company more relative to the outside world.

Either way you look at it, find and leverage those that compliment yourself.

reinvent yourself

Cross the Thinking Gap and Reinvent Yourself!

How do you reinvent yourself? For the longest time, I questioned how this is possible. Aren’t we are who we’ve always been? How do we get another identity than the one we’re so familiar with?

A book that I found during my years at Purdue, called Reinventing Yourself made me start thinking more and more about this. And I realized that I had started on this path early on.

When I was growing up, I understood competition. In fact, I remember the first time I “lost” in the real world. It was in 4H in a shooting sports competition. And frankly, I hadn’t practice – and apparently it showed. I ended up getting 7th out of 10 competitors in my age range.

reinvent yourself

I was pretty upset when I heard the news. Up until that point, I felt that I was good at about just anything I put my mind to. I just couldn’t believe that I didn’t do as well as I thought I was going to do.

I vowed that next year I was going to be better.

That next year, I made it a point to get up super early on Saturdays and go out to the firing range with the club.

That next year, I didn’t do much better. In fact, if I remember right, I got 5th place. Still not nearly as good as the champions and grand champion ribbons I was seeing in my other projects.

However, one thing did stand out to me. Everyone at this event, which was supposed to be highly competitive, got a small trophy.

This was the first time I was exposed to the idea of all participants get a trophy.

I remember being pretty ticked off. Why should they get something for not even placing? I worked at my loss!

So the next year I opted to focus more on Dog Club and left the shooting sports group all together.

Generation Entitlement?

Many argue that Millennials are the most entitled generation. In fact, there are all kinds of books and articles that suggest that the reason for this is because of the rampancy of participation trophies.

Whether that’s truly the case is unknown. However, a lot of Millennials have been told their entire life that they can do anything they want if they put their mind to it.

Well, that’s simply not the case.

What’s worse, is that when things don’t go a certain way, many blame others for their downfalls.

It’s my parents’ fault.

The professor screwed us!

The government needs to do something about that!

Society teaches us that using phrases like this are ok. Unfortunately, they’re only ok if we plan to stay stuck where we’re at in life and in our careers.

Owners Win & Victims Lose

You might have heard the phrase “Own up to it!”. If so, you know that this is slang for taking responsibility for one’s actions.

When you own up to doing something wrong or incorrectly, you’re acting in a space of courage. You say something like “This is my fault. I will do better next time”.  

When we’re denying that we didn’t do something we’re accused of, we’re shedding responsibility. We think “I didn’t do anything wrong. Why should I change?”

Here’s the thing. We can only get better if we acknowledge our failure. If we don’t acknowledge that failure, we’re setting ourselves up for that same failure in the future.

So, really, it’s not much of a stretch to say that what you say on the outside starts with what you think and feel on the inside.

Become an owner and reinvent yourself

If you’re tired of losing, then it’s time to turn things around. But how? How can you reinvent yourself?

Well, here’s a few things that you can become a bit more aware of as you’re living your daily life. Once you break your habit of doing these things and turn it around, you automatically set yourself up to win.

1. Life is Hard! It’s Me vs the Rest of the World!

No, it isn’t. It really isn’t. Life is what you make out of it. 17 years ago, I believed that the world was acting against me and my goal of graduating. It felt like all professors were conspiring against me.

Truth is, engineering is just super tough and I wasn’t putting in enough work to get it done. Once I realized that it wasn’t working out, I switched majors and life started getting better. I got into a study group and started making the grades that I knew I was capable of. Heck, I even had time to do extracurricular activities for once!

2. I’m Not My Fault. They Made Me Do It!

Here’s a phrase that you’ll hear in movies quite a bit. Often times, you’ll hear it from a villain who’s trying to get back at the government or some kind of company.

We as the audience know that while they might have gotten a bad rap, it’s their fault that they’re acting the way they are. They’re making active choices to take the actions that they are.

Soon after, the villain gets what he deserves and the hero rides off into the sunset.

In our own lives, while using this phrase might not involve high stakes as a building exploding or aliens from another dimension being released into our own, it does have the same effect.

It’s our job to realize that we can totally change our perspective of the world at any time.

For example, there are plenty of people out there who have lost a limb and think they can’t be their former selves. That might be true, but it’s also totally possible that they could now be a better version of themselves now.

Also, there are homeless people who are constantly miserable and there are others who are fighting to get out of their funk. I’ve interviewed two people fairly recently who were both homeless in high school and now, years later, are living their dreams.


3. Why Should I Take Responsibility of Something I Didn’t Do?

I’ve mentioned this before, but Andrew Luck is a great example of a leader. In all of his post game interviews, he always takes the responsibility of a loss. And when the team wins, he sheds the glory to his teammates.

We all should try to be this humble in our own lives. Take responsibility even if it’s not our fault. And when we’re awarded, give thanks to those who have supported us.

Action Steps

As far as additional action steps to reinvent yourself, it might be worth your time to listen to a couple of interviews from those who had plenty of reasons to be a victim.
David Anderson, Antonio Smith, Jr., and Kristian Aleixo.

Also, you can learn more about crossing the thinking gap by checking out the newest version of Reinventing Yourself by Steve Chandler.